From Janus 105
In April 1994 we received a letter from Melbourne, Australia signed ‘Sassy Miss Lisa’: ‘I am 21, Australian born, 6 foot, light brown hair, blue eyes, with a sassy backside. I have seen many of your magazines and find them a real turn-on. I have been into spanking for some time… As soon as I developed into a woman I discovered my interest in being dominated and spanked.’
Lisa wrote that she would be visiting England with her boyfriend, Richard, in the summer and ‘would like a chance to be immortalised in one of your photo shoots. Your magazine is the Vogue of the spanking world and combines a romantic woman’s angle on spanking with top quality production values… I can also endure and take a good sound spanking, and can play pretty hard with paddles, straps and canes.’ We were similarly impressed by the model card and home photos of CP which she enclosed.
When this delightful and impressive young couple reached London we conducted an interview and photo session with them. Lisa is seen with Richard, 26, the owner of the Hellfire Club and Emporium in Melbourne where she regularly performs. Lisa is everything she claims — and more!
JANUS: In your letter, Lisa, you wrote: ‘I would be honoured to have my bratty bottom spanked and caned within your fine pages.’ What did you mean by bratty?
LISA: A brat is the best way I would describe myself, I think. You could say naughty, but that sounds a little bit too childish.
JANUS: Is brattiness a more mature kind of naughtiness, then? Being deliberately naughty?
LISA: Yes. Especially if I feel like getting a spanking, or having sex, then I’ll do something bad.
JANUS: You tend to do the bad thing in order to get into trouble, do you? What is a particularly bratty thing, then?
LISA: Well — this is a favourite of mine — if I want Richard to stay home I’ll hide his car keys and go off to work, and he’ll have to call me to find out where they are.
JANUS: That is terrible.
LISA: And today, I put a price tag on the back of his jacket so he’s been walking around the street with the price tag showing…
JANUS: Is this to create justification for the punishment you are going to receive?
LISA: Yeah. Or I’ll pinch him, or start water fights, or… there’s lots of things.
JANUS: When were you first spanked?
LISA: I used to get spanked by my stepfather as a teenager.
JANUS: Was it ever more than a hand-spanking?
LISA: Yes. I’d get the wooden spoon — that’s one I felt a lot — and the feather duster. The end of the feather duster was like a cane. It was very painful.
JANUS: Did you get it through clothing, or on the bare?
LISA: Both. I remember one time I put three pairs of panties on because I knew I was going to be punished and I was so scared.
JANUS: Did you resent it, or feel bad about it? Was it effective?
LISA: It didn’t help, because I’d still be naughty. It only affected me at the moment I was about to get it.
JANUS: Are you saying that knowing that you could be punished wasn’t a deterrent that influenced your behaviour?
LISA: Oh no, it wasn’t. I got worse! I rebelled against my stepfather and against a lot of men. I think all it really did was trigger off things in my sexuality that are coming out more now.
JANUS: Do you think that your stepfather’s motive in punishing you was at all vindictive?
LISA: I think so. He didn’t like me. We didn’t get along, and he wasn’t very happy in himself. He didn’t have the attitude that a father should.
JANUS: You said he used a feather duster and a wooden spoon — did your stepfather punish you with any other implements?
LISA: The hairbrush sometimes, but the feather duster was the worst. It was very bad…
JANUS: Did you ever get the feather duster on the bare bottom?
LISA: Most of the time it was on the bare bottom. It hurt very much, because really it was just like the cane. He used to shout at me when he was doing it, which made it terribly upsetting. It only stopped when I began cheeking and answering back, kind of rebelling against him a lot.
JANUS: Did you think a lot about what had happened then — about the physical punishment you were receiving?
LISA: I didn’t think about it an extreme amount, until I got to the age I am now.
JANUS: When did you start connecting sexuality with the spankings you had received?
LISA: I’d say at 20, 21. Particularly since I met Richard, which was about nine months ago.
JANUS: So when you were, say, 18 or 19, you weren’t particularly thinking about it?
LISA: Not really. I think at that stage I had very weird thoughts sexually and I would let men treat me badly. I got involved with all the wrong type of people, because I was working in nightclubs. I went out with men twice my age, older than my Dad.
JANUS: What were you actually doing in the nightclubs?
LISA: Working on the door, security, or cloakroom, or taking tickets. I’d meet other nightclub owners and older men… they seem to go through a stage in life where they are looking for younger women. And I think that’s what I was, though it would never last, that kind of relationship, like in Bitter Moon, one of my favourite movies.
JANUS: Yes, the Roman Polanski film…
RICHARD: He always had, like, corporal punishment elements running through his films. In one of them he has a belting, where the man takes a girl and belts her across the back. I know he also has a spanking scene in Cul de Sac.
LISA: To make a movie like that he would have had to have a huge interest in the subject.
RICHARD: Of course, it’s the father-figure thing isn’t it? For example, the way Lisa looked for a father-figure when she became independent. That was the sort of man she was attracted to. Even though she wasn’t seeking a spanking, that, to me, was an obsession with the male authority figure as if she was looking for someone to take control of her life, even though she could be attracted to other young men. It was someone to control her.
JANUS: Was your stepfather very domineering? Was he authoritarian?
LISA: As a man he was very weak. He disgusted me. I worked out his mind when I was really young and was very angry with him for many years, but now I feel sorry for him. That’s why although I like it — I think I’m very touchy about playing out the role of the young girl being punished by an older man, the father/daughter scenario. I like people who are around the late twenties, and I couldn’t possibly go out with someone who looked like my stepfather, or was around that age.
RICHARD: The idea of a fictitious mother/father-figure is erotic. Well, it is to me and I think it is also to Lisa. And that’s why I think it is legitimate to fantasise about that sort of thing.
JANUS: Have you had this kind of fantasy, Lisa?
LISA: Yes, but in a rather strange way. Because I understood how my stepfather felt about me, I wanted to use that against him. Tease him with it because of what he had done to me. I wanted to torture him with it. When I got to 20 and started to do dominatrix work, I fully understood when I punished lots of men. I liked whipping men who wanted it, though not men who didn’t, but submissive men.
JANUS: Did you see a weakness in these men, in the same way that you perceived a weakness in your stepfather?
LISA: Yes, I just think a lot of men are weak sexually, like my stepfather was. I could see their weakness and I think I just wanted to tease them and torture them with it. I do have a very violent nature and am very stressful. I haven’t been to work for two weeks now (dominatrix work, that is) and the stress is building up! But then I have another side to me where I really like being submissive, with Richard. I do have this side to me, very much, that wants to be spanked, and even to have quite violent sex… what do they call it, strangulation?
RICHARD: Mild suffocation during orgasm. In relation to sexuality it means that if you play with danger, like in punishment with pain, it is the fear. Fear is the key, especially with severe punishment. It is not the fact that it hurts, that’s almost distracting, it’s the actual fear that’s erotic. It’s the fear that you’re being punished hard, because sexuality has so much to do with fear, even near-death experiences and orgasms. The French call orgasm ‘the little death’.
LISA: I had a lot of fantasies about being submissive, about being spanked, because I’d always wanted a boyfriend to tie me up. I’d always wanted that, but I couldn’t overcome feeling guilty about my stepfather. Richard brought a lot of that out of me though and I was able to become much more open about my sexuality. Now I don’t have any problems whatsoever.
RICHARD: The first time I said to Lisa, ‘Look, I’d like to spank you,’ pretty soon into our relationship, she was very receptive to the idea. She said that she’d always wanted someone to do that, and I thought, well, I’m not going to have any trouble here. I really warmed her quite nicely and she responded very positively to it and kicked her legs and…
LISA: That’s when I started to buy nice lingerie and things.
RICHARD: She was trying to present her backside in various different ways to tempt me.
LISA: It all happened really fast. I’d worked in a very bossy kind of dominant job, as a security door girl, and this was the other side of me. I’m used to arguing with people — I love arguing. I couldn’t possibly have a boyfriend without arguing a lot! But I saw in Richard someone who, if I was cheeky or rude, wasn’t going to let me get away with very much. But I also have this funny side to me where I don’t like to think I’m being bossed around. I have these moods where I like to be in charge, though not sexually.
RICHARD: People always assume that if a woman wants to be submissive in a relationship, if she likes to be spanked, then she is there for submitting to men’s will and is a weak nothing. That’s what feminists argue but it’s complete nonsense, because women who are businesswomen and heads of companies, or journalists, or whatever, can be right into it.
JANUS: Quite often it’s the ‘high-powered’ women who have a greater need to be submissive, as a counterbalance. You’ve mentioned, Lisa, that you’ve appeared both as a submissive and a dominant in Richard’s clubs. Do you find these roles equally rewarding in public performance?
LISA: Yes, though to be submissive I have to trust a person very much.
JANUS: Are you then fastened?
RICHARD: We have an ‘A’ frame, which is like two door frames forming a triangle with the floor and Lisa is tied to this frame. We generally start with spanking then use a cat-o’-nine tails and flog her on the bottom and the back. Not too hard though — it’s more a hard massage, at least to start with.
JANUS: Is that all it is?
LISA: Oh no, it becomes quite severe when it’s done in public.
RICHARD: Also, I’ll do spankings where I’ll just get a chair, and that’s my favourite fantasy: a hand-spanking over the knee on a straight-backed chain I get the hairbrush out and say to Lisa, ‘You’ve been a bad girl!’ and the crowd loves it. Everyone just goes mental when that happens!
JANUS: Do you receive the cane sometimes, Lisa?
LISA: Well, I used to but I had quite a bad experience with it. I did make two videos in America. After the first one, my bottom was already warmed-up by spanking, and the second one was a schoolgirl thing. It went really well, but I got the cane and I copped it really bad. I had welts and worse.
RICHARD: I was there watching it on the monitor. The man who caned her was a very strong man, an ex-Marine, quite a nice guy but… Lisa was saying she could take a lot and he said, ‘Well, here’s a lot!’ They were the classic ‘six of the best’, and they were! But Lisa and I had played with the cane occasionally and I’d tied her to the bed. She has to be tied because she can’t keep still for the cane.
JANUS: Is it exciting to be tied down and caned, assuming that there is trust?
LISA: Before this happened with the video I would probably have said that it would have been, but now that’s put me off a bit. I expected to receive a lot because I knew I was doing two videos in one session but I spent the whole week driving around on holiday gingerly getting in and out of the car! Apart from that I had a lot of fun doing the videos and I loved the experience. I loved playing out the schoolgirl role.
JANUS: Can you say anything more about the brat aspect to your character?
LISA: Sometimes I can have this really rude attitude. I don’t swear, but I love being rude and I can tell I’m really annoying Richard. I love doing it to him. It’s my favourite hobby at the moment. There are a lot of times when I do it — when I feel like being spanked.
RICHARD: It’s her natural character, She is bratty. She will walk down the street and if she’s not in a good mood she will say, ‘Shut up!’ or ‘Do this!’ or ‘Do that!’ She’ll be too bossy and I’ll say, ‘Look, keep carrying on like that and you are going to cop it.’ And she pushes and pushes. Then when she gets it she cries and it’s, ‘Oh, my bottom! Ohhh!’ In fact her favourite spankings are the impromptu ones when she’s done something bratty and we do it on the spur of the moment, and it’s actually quite hard, like the real thing.
LISA: Oh, something funny I did do… I do the housework in the flat that we live in and Richard’s really messy and I just got sick of picking up his clothes, his socks and his underwear, so I threw them out on to the doormat. We live in this really nice apartment with all these snobs in the block and they’d come home and see all this underwear which had been there all day, on the doormat — to teach him a lesson not to throw things on the floor I, er… got punished.
RICHARD: I let things build up a bit and a couple of times a week I settle the account. I keep a mental record. I like hand-spanking her because it’s very erotic and you can do it before sex, and you can play with the vagina before, during or after. But if I felt it was a lesson that had to be learned then the belt is good, or a hairbrush.
JANUS: What about the actual pain? Do you like it or dislike it?
LISA: Sometimes I really like it. When I do all these bratty things I want to get a spanking, but if I know I’ve probably gone too far and I’m really going to get it, then I kind of chicken out a bit. I do enjoy it, but Richard can be very severe, though he can also be pretty good when I ask for a certain level.
RICHARD: Lisa is actually very strong but so am I and there are not many men who could keep her on their knee. If she really wanted out, probably only someone like Arnold Schwarzenegger could hold her there! I mean, in arm-wrestling she can hold her own and it’s a struggle to beat her.
JANUS: You like the sensation of the cane, but do you feel fear?
LISA: If I’m tied down, it’s exciting. I think it is very sexual.
JANUS: When you are receiving CP in front of an audience in the club, is the experience more powerful than in a one-to-one?
LISA: I think so. That doesn’t happen much now because I am mainly playing a dominant there, but as a submissive I can be an exhibitionist if I want. I’m not shy, and I think that comes from catwalk modelling work. I don’t necessarily feel humiliated being watched. I like the thought that I might be turning other people on. It excites me that they are enjoying it, but I don’t feel humiliated unless I am being told, like a slave, to crawl across the room and being called names.
JANUS: Do you use the humiliation approach yourself when you are in dominant mode?
LISA: Definitely. I love doing that, it’s another of my favourites. If I have a man tied up and I’m giving him quite a hard session, someone who’s boasted, ‘Oh yes, I can handle it,’ and who’s probably got heaps of muscles and tattoos all over his body, I love to show him he’s a complete wusser. They say the signal like, ‘Mercy, Mistress!’ or something like that and I’ll make them yell out, ‘I’m not a real man, I’m a wusser!’ They have to yell this in front of the audience and the audience claps and they all laugh. That’s a humiliation because there are all these people watching and ready to remind him of what he said. I really enjoy being a Mistress, I really like it, but I like it more if it’s a submissive person who’s experienced and they like experimenting and trying out new things. I like people like that more than those who come up just as a joke. I humiliate those ones even more!
JANUS: What do you mean by ‘experimenting’?
LISA: There are some people that love candle wax and they’ll want their whole back done. Others who like being tormented with ice over their body, or being tickled, which can be a more erotic thing. There’s a lot of things you can do. Those people who want straight-up whipping don’t want anything else. They don’t like the mucking-around part.
JANUS: Are there people who like being ordered around and verbally dominated in these public performances?
LISA: Yes, especially if they feel intimidated. I like that, I think it’s good, but most men who are into that are a little bit, I don’t know, they’re not the full quid! Men who follow me around the club and want to come back next week and see me, they become a little bit obsessed, because they want a personal Mistress. Because I’m with Richard I don’t have any interest, unless I was being paid an awful lot of money and the guy was on the level and not crazy. There is definitely a side to S&M where some people have just gone too far because they’ve been doing it for too many years and they’ve lost that sense of proportion.
RICHARD: From what I know about Lisa, her character is naturally aggressive and domineering but on the more intimate side, sexually she is submissive. But she enjoys the eroticism of being dominant.
JANUS: I find it very interesting that you have both sides, Lisa. Usually, people have one side or the other.
LISA: I find that when I go around to S&M clubs people can’t understand it.
JANUS: Before we started this interview you said that in general you don’t like men and this could lead you into dominating them, due to their sexual weakness. Can you be more specific about what it is you don’t like about men?
LISA: I just think that for a man to talk to any woman he has to want to have sex with her. Men don’t give women the time of day — they’ve always got other intentions. I’m very sexist, I admit that. I think I grew up too fast, around older men. I’ve had male friends and I’ve thought it was so good, you know, ‘You’re my friend and I don’t have to worry about what I wear, or if I talk to other men’, and then I find out they’ve been in love with me all that time.
RICHARD: It’s a paradoxical thing, you say you really don’t like men but all your friends are men!
JANUS: Do you even like women?
LISA: I have to like very strong women. I don’t like weak women. My close friends, and I’ve only ever had a couple of them, were really strong women who’ve known what they wanted. I don’t like these women who chase after men.
JANUS: Are you bisexual?
LISA: Er… um… er… I’ve played around a little bit, but I don’t really look at women like that. I find women’s bodies beautiful — I admire women’s bodies and I don’t have any problem looking at them.
JANUS: I’d like to return to the remark you made earlier about going out and buying nice lingerie to present your bottom in a way to entice Richard.
LISA: Well, I’ve always had an interest in lingerie, but when I met Richard and he started spanking me I always used to wear G-strings. I never, ever, used to wear full-grown panties, but when Richard said he liked them, I thought that that was nice and it was good that there were still men who like the old-fashioned look rather than having to look tacky, tarty. I love white stockings and panties that look nice. I know what his favourite ones are and I know that even if I just wear them around the house, I’m going to get it!
JANUS: Have you always had a special thing about your bottom? Have you considered your bottom to be a particular focal point, or erotic part of you?
LISA: Well, I do now because it’s had so much attention, but before, I used to think it was awful. I think all girls have insecurities about certain parts of their bodies. I didn’t think my bottom was particularly fantastic, though when Richard saw it he liked it a lot. Now I certainly think about it much more, especially when it’s hurting! I look after it a lot more.
JANUS: Do you also like Richard being gentle with your bottom?
LISA: Yes, I like that too, like when we give each other massages.
JANUS: Richard, does she deliberately try to take the initiative from you by exploiting her femininity? Does she use femininity as a weapon?
RICHARD: Definitely. She’ll get dressed up and walk into a room full of men and I think it’s reasonably obvious she wants to be the centre of attention. At home, she’ll sit around in a pair of panties and only one thing is going to happen, and it isn’t necessarily a spanking…
LISA: I feel that my sexuality is quite balanced and I have every angle covered. I can tell Richard anything and I’m very lucky to have someone like that. With him I’ve experienced so many things I would never get to experience normally.
RICHARD: To some extent I think spanking has come ‘out of the closet’, with people like Madonna writing a song about it, and various other people have embraced the whole subject. In consequence, the younger generation has been able to speak openly about it. Couples can confess their innermost fantasies. That’s why I think Janus and other magazines which deal with particular sexual fetishes are very important. I mean, you leave one on the table when someone comes round and they can either pick it up or ignore it, but it sends a very open message, and it’s done tastefully.
JANUS: I think that in the past, interest has been very much more furtive.
RICHARD: Men have really no need to feel ashamed about buying ‘girlie’ magazines, as long as they are taken with a healthy sex life, even if it is masturbatory.
LISA: I think that Janus is very stylish. It is definitely not offensive and tacky, or violent, and that’s why I like it. I know from Richard’s collection, it’s the only magazine that I really like. It’s very sensual, and more erotic, and if a lot more women knew it…
RICHARD: Janus is the head! It takes the subject seriously and unlike the American mags it doesn’t mix it with, like, tit and arse pictures. It’s disciplined, and has an old-fashioned eroticism, formal and with old English charm. Especially now, it’s even more appealing because it’s like an image of an old world that has been lost. Paradise lost! It is the only magazine I consistently buy. It’s English, it’s not German or Australian, it’s old-fashioned English and that’s the essential attraction.
JANUS: Finally, Lisa: is CP, especially hand-spanking, something you actually like as part of sexual foreplay?LISA: I do. That’s usually the way Richard and I would start. It triggers me off and I definitely want to have sex afterwards. It’s the way I like to think it happens — romantically. If you’re doing something you both like, such as spanking, it is something that turns you both on.